Posts by Band on the Run

54

France to Fine Women Wearing Full-Faced Islamic Veils

by leavingwt in

france to fine women who don full-face islamic veils in publicthe french government decided wednesday to impose a $185 fine on women who wear a full-face islamic veil in public, pushing ahead with a controversial ban despite signs of tension between france's muslims and the christian-tradition majority.

president nicolas sarkozy said his government was forwarding the legislation to parliament because it had a "moral responsibility" to uphold traditional european values in the face of an increasingly visible muslim population, estimated at more than 5 million, the largest in western europe.

he called the course chosen by his government "demanding" but "just," and he insisted that the law was not intended to stigmatize the country's muslims.

Band on the Run

This French law is religious intolerance! Duh! It could not be clearer. Valid competing claims exist here. The right of an individual to be free from religious coercion. 2. a religion's rights and the religion's adherents right to be free from governmental controls. Here, the French govt is controlling the free exercise of Islam.

Why do people only care about religious intolerance from Moslems. Christians have more than been intolerant. The Inquistion. The burning of religious dissidents at the stake. Henry VIII's slaying of loyal Catholics. French Protestants slain by the Medici queen. I am an English history buff. The period of Henry VIII and Elizabeth was chilling. It was unclear for decades which religion would rule England. Depending on where you lived, it could be x in one part of England and y, a county away. People wanted to live their lives in peace. The government killed people for standing during communion. A battle was fought, power changed. People were executed for kneeling during communion. Archaeologists have found hiding places all over the place for rosary beads. You might need them to live at 9am, by 3pm, possession of said beads could mean death.

The first English translation of the Bible was executed. I am a NYer. Islamic intolerance bothers me. What did Jesus say about the beam in your eye?

We don't worry about religious intoleration from Jews. I submit it is because they've assimilated racially. If Moslems were mostly white, this debate would change.

I don't know the answer for France. It would be unconsciable in the United States. I am too American to trash all my upbringing and beliefs. Al-Qaeda cannot take down New York or DC. If people are slain, others will rise up and take their places as American who believe in freedom. Al-Qaeda can never win militarily. Losing our valued civil rights and civil liberties, the very things that make us American is what will defeat us. Islamic radicals can triggers us to forget our values and win. Once a woman must pay a fine for wearing a burqa in the US, we have lost and lost completely.

Between the birthers and this Moslem "not white" racism, I can see how some people were good JWs. I refuse to be a good JW.

14

Ex-inlaws are trying to JW indoctrinate my daughter....need some advice

by James_Slash in

could do with some help please.. i found out last week that my daughter is being taught how to pray before meals "dear jehovah" and taken to meetings by her mothers family (that are jw's).. myself and her mother are divorced - we live over 100 miles apart.

neither of us are jws anymore (i haven't been for 5 years - not d/f or d/a) and i am contemplating my disassociation letter as we speak.

her family played a part in separating me from my daughter during our divorce in 2007 - they even wrote lies to support her.

Band on the Run

I am a lawyer. If your daughter is important to you, see a family lawyer. A family law expert will cost more than a general practice lawyer. It will be cheaper in the long run b/c the lawyer should know the law (as opposed to having finesse in not letting you know that lawyer doesn't know). Altho it is not my specialty, I think of several legal issues immediately.

In my view, you have two avenues: 1. the one you can control. Critical thinking skills. Being a diplomat respecting the in-laws yet making it clear that you disagree with them, etc. 2, a legal remedy of some sort. This happens all the time in America. The case and statutory law must be settled. One thing you can try is reading some law review articles yourself. Some material may be online. Commercial legal research software is expensive. A local law school will likely let the public have limited access for pro se cases where people represent themselves. As an outsider, it is hard to find out who is very good. If you go to law librarian, ask which law journals are local. Searching for religious issues and grandparents articles in these particular journals might give you leads to local lawyers who publish with expertise in the area.

It must be heart breaking. I'd try to see the struggle as a long term one, focusing on her ultimate adult choice, rather than a pitched battle.

45

Does Anyone Know How To Drain Blocked Inner Ears?

by Low-Key Lysmith in

jw
friends

i just got over a bad sinus infection.

both of my inner ears are filled with fluid as a result.

i simply cannot get them to drain.

Band on the Run

I was forced to disembark from a plane on my way to surgery because of this problem. Anthistamines, nasal sprays, neti pots might help. If you can see an ENT, they can put a probe down and suck it out. They will only do that in an emergency, though. I've begged to have it done because of the pressure on my ears.

Do not bang your ears! I just could not take the pain and thought it would drain and equalize that way. My hearing loss in that ear is bad. Besides, they were still blocked.

When my ears have such pressure on them, it is hard not to bang them in despair. Sometimes I feel like bribing a doctor. I was in a tremendous rush to make scheduled surgery. The pilot was available, pre 9/11. I asked him a hypothetical question concerning blocked ears. Soon I was exiting the plane and cancelling surgery. Personally, don't tell me pilots, stewardess, and navigators don't have a way of equalizing the pressure. I can see a major airline diverting traffic b/c someone's allergies are aggravated. I am convinced there is a remedy.

23

Is it me or do the JW's act like the Circuit Overseer is Jesus himself?

by stillstuckcruz in

i'm sure many have noticed that.

now obviously many more will go out in fs than usual and such because the co brings more "insight" on fs than the usual brothers.

understandable i guess.

Band on the Run

And Bob Dylan wrote, paraphrase (I'm ashamed I can't quote), even the president of the United States must sometimes stand naked.

We did this in our time. The finest meals, special outfits that my mom sewed. Somehow I don't think Catholics make so much effort for a papal visit. I was just a kid and would not be impressed today. The COs we had stood out from the regular witnesses and overseers. First, he could give a truly public talk, rather than mumble and stumble. Second, his ideas had a clarity. Third, he commanded respect far more than any overseer. Maybe it was the allure of the occasional rather than the usual. This is funny. I had forgotten.

We were drilled what not to mention when he and his wife came for dinner. Normally, we were shunned but not disfellowshipped. My father was a former bodyguard to Knorr and Rutherford. He devoted his life to Witness stuff but he would never conform. Knorr and he were always engaged in struggles concerning factory work. My father was the only one in our KH to own property. No one could even acknowledge him at the hall. I yearned to have a friend who was a Witness as my mom's best friend had been. When they needed cash, they could fetch and step better than anyone.

9

So how many annointed are there and how many supposedly are left?

by stillstuckcruz in

maybe i just don't pay enough attention at meetings, which is a serious possibility.

of the supposed 144,000 thousand jw's that are supposed to go to heaven, how many have there been thus far?

what happens if their number surpasses that 144,000?.

Band on the Run

I am now almost sixty. My great grandfather was of the generation that considered themselves of the remnant. It was unthinkable and scandalous for my grandmother's genenration to be considered remnant. They accepted they were of the Great Crowd. My great grandfather lived into his 90s. The Witness anticipation at the time was that when the last of them died, the big A would come.

This was never preached. I never saw it written. All my family members and other Witnesses shared this view. Something happened, obviously. I can recall when our wacky overseer declared he was remnant. We almost fainted literally. We expected Jehovah to strike him dead.

Part of it is funny. When my greatgrandfather lived with us for a while, I bonded as a young child. He was Dutch and had a dog named Curly, whom he gave beer to drink. Curly and he were very tight. The family discussed how he would be in heaven, ruling with Christ. I could see him heaven but not ruling. Later, as I developed, I became worried that since he was in heaven he could see me bathing and changing my clothes. It freaked me. I wanted him in heaven and hence, alive because I loved him. The privacy aspect was not worked out in my mind. I worried that Curly might be just dead. Curly should have been part of a dog remnant.

58

Why the Memorial Is Held on the Wrong Day

by Leolaia in

tonight on the evening of april 18, 2011, observant jews worldwide will celebrate passover seder, a night "different from all other nights".

the watchtower society annually schedules the memorial for jehovah's witnesses on a date that is supposed to coincide with the jewish observance of passover, as it would have been reckoned during second temple times (in particular, in the first century ad during the life of jesus).

this year the memorial was observed last night, the evening of april 17. the two religious observances are thus a day out of synth, at least this year.

Band on the Run

I started a thread regarding this and can't find it. Living in NY, I've heard much Jewish controversy. Yet they all agree on Passover. A highly educated people celebration their most important day for thousands of years. Much experience with lunar calendar. Why should a group of men in Brooklyn come up with a different date? Eastern Orthodox Churches celebrate Easter later than Western churches but the concept is the same. Some problems with the adoption of a new Western calendar.

This continually mystifies me about the Witnesses. The self importance. If generations of Jews going back, prob. even before Abraham in some pretradition stemming from the underlying pagan religion, can agree on a date, why don't the Witnesses pause and consider? Would a "we're not certain. we prefer this date b/c......" work. Someone repeatedly posts that the original lie is the God appointed the WTBTS alone as his agent. It is very true.

I'm not wishing anyone a happy or good memorial. Unfortunately, I'm living in the boondocks and now must send belated wishes. Passover extends for a period of time.

54

France to Fine Women Wearing Full-Faced Islamic Veils

by leavingwt in

france to fine women who don full-face islamic veils in publicthe french government decided wednesday to impose a $185 fine on women who wear a full-face islamic veil in public, pushing ahead with a controversial ban despite signs of tension between france's muslims and the christian-tradition majority.

president nicolas sarkozy said his government was forwarding the legislation to parliament because it had a "moral responsibility" to uphold traditional european values in the face of an increasingly visible muslim population, estimated at more than 5 million, the largest in western europe.

he called the course chosen by his government "demanding" but "just," and he insisted that the law was not intended to stigmatize the country's muslims.

Band on the Run

I came upon the French discussion of religious freedom this past week. They have a concept called laicete that is completely lacking in American political thought. They believe the individual must be protected from religion as much as religion must be protected from the state. Someone discussed this in a past thread. The European model was churches representing the aristocracy, antilibertarian, reactionary strand. Conservative is too mild a word. The French Revolution had many anticlerical manifestations. American history was very different.

We have a bright line in the U.S. for free exercise of religion. The Establishment Clause is extremely muddled. No court would find the burqa ban constitutional. My gut reaction is the American one is correct. How do I discount the fact that I am an American and proud of it, for the most part? Frenchmen would claim they protect free exercise, too.

It reminds me of the Soviet dissidents imprisoned as mental patients. No Western doctor ever saw a shred of evidence of mental illness. Soviet doctors sincerely believed dissent was a manifestation of illness. This burqa ban is very similar to wearing a yellow star on clothing to denote you are Jewish. The Nuremberg laws were passed. It is chilling.

Sometimes my hatred of the Witnesses overtakes my better judgment. My mom was expelled from high school for not saluting the flag. It shattered her. France would find not saluting the flag interferes with social cohesion. Americans don't know what social cohesion is. We are used to diversity. Different strokes for different folks. The German example is too clear. France was occupid and yet people forget. Good Frenchmen, not just Vichy, cooperated with the hauling of jews into ovens. It almost always starts small.

The US may have just lost its position as enemy no. 1. As a NYer, I am glad.

Has anyone discussed Sarkosy being right wing in this context. How are the more to the left political parties responding?

4

Memorial Day Calculation vs. Jewish Passover Calculation

by Band on the Run in

the witnesses teach about nisan 14. oh, happy days, nisan 14 has been out of my life for decades.

we always had a beautiful full moon for memorial.

it always scared me.

Band on the Run

The Witnesses teach about Nisan 14. Oh, happy days, Nisan 14 has been out of my life for decades. We always had a beautiful full moon for Memorial. It always scared me. The passing of the emblems seemed very Catholic and spooky with dead bodies. paradise on earth and heaven. My great grandfather was a remnant. Supposedly one of the last ones until new light.

Jews have been calculating Nisan 14 since time immemorial. Maybe even before Abraham when YHW was a local god. I understand that Easter is a moveable feast. The way for calculating it is in the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, which is adapted from the Catholic. Yet Orthodox Easter is different and later. The JWs and the Jewish authorities should agree but rarely do. What gives?

I grew up in New York so I know there are many controversies and disputes among Jewry. Yet they all agree on Passover. It seems a simple enough concept if you are familiar with lunar calendars. I've pondered this since elementary school. It was embarassing saying we were celebrated Christ's passover meal when Passover was a different date. A bunch of not educated people in Brooklyn vs. thousands of years of Jewish practice. Which one is right?

54

Temporarily tired of JW boyfriend. Should I: a) leave

by SEL in

or b) continue in my plan of eventually getting him out with steve hassan's help?.

option b is going to be expensive but not impossibly so.

but it would require more patience than i think i have.

Band on the Run

Advice off the internet is not very reliable. Unless you are trying to voice your own feelings and instincts. Growing up a Witness, I was not entitled to opinions. Today, I tend to conduct public opinion polls even when my gut has already decided. Twelve Step groups believe in a God or Higher Power. Leave him to his Higher Power. Maybe his Higher Power will lead him out. Now is the time to walk out if you don't want the Witnesses. Nothing is going to magically happen if you don't do anything. Not deciding is a decision.

Enough about him. What about you? What is your religion, if any? What are your hopes, dreams or ambitions? What are your values?

14

News: Recent warning from French President about certain practices of JWs.

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

here's the link in french.

below that is the link to the google translation.

can someone help with a better translation?http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/politique/le-classement-atypique-des-temoins-de-jehovah-par-l-ump_981061.html.

Band on the Run

Postscript: When I come to this forum, I recall my humble and atrocious early life. I graduated magna with Distinction in Political Science from Columbia. They gave me enough scholarships to buy four Mercedes. It was quite an adjustment from KH life. Many times I thought I would die I was so overwhelmed. I was ready for my freshman year the year I graduated. Next, I attended the fourth ranked law school in the US on a full merit scholarship. I've worked for the U.S. Senate Subcommittee on the Constitution and a major Wall St. law firm, representing multinationals and foreign governments.

There is a lot of drama here for an article. An editor could polish it.

My gut reaction is the American one. I was born an American. The Supreme Court provided me with references to the European examples. It would be pig headed to say the US has religious freedom and Europe has none. It strikes me that religion is cosseted in the US. Atheists don't have equal rights in practical terms. My area of expertise, the funding of social welfare organizations that are missions of their religion, is an example. Under the Warren Court, it would have been forbidden. Bush actually created a White House Office to facilitate funding with our tax dollars. Many commentators wrote how reactionary Bush was. A right-wing Christian. born again. Well, Obama believes in the concept, too, and has even extended it. It defines left/right defintions.

Americans rarely know basic civics. Arguing that individuals matter and need protection from any state and any religion is not going to be embraced. A few years ago, I would go down fighting for the American way. Something changed my mind. My experience with the Witnesses. I don't ever them want them persecuted. RAther, I want the public to completely ignore them. Every born in had rights to birthdays, etc. The basic concept of self-determination should win. Roman fathers could execute their children with impunity. Maybe we haven't travelled as far as we think.

Viva la France. fraternite, equalite.liberte. The land of Camus, Sartre, Monet, Manet, etc.